Ask Dan & Jennifer

I think these are just issues you will have to work out for yourself. If doing something is against your own morals and belief systems then it will not be fun for you, therefore you should not do it. If, however, you are seeing things differently and challenging your previous belief systems then perhaps it is something you need to explore.
Then if you're worried about your actions hurting you loved ones if they knew, think why would they be hurt? Would your dad be hurt because you are not buying into his exact doctrinal beliefs or because he would not want to see his baby girl with whip marks on her behind? Either of these shouldn't be a major ordeal. Religion and spirituality can be as vague and impersonal as one wants it to be, or it can be a very personal, fullfilling, experience. Just because one person believes something different than that of their church's teachings does not mean they cannot continue to be a fruitful member of that church.. or perhaps they need to find a new place of worship. And if you are worried about loved ones being hurt by seeing you dominated... well, that's really none of their business is it? I mean, if you were to have a fully monogamous, sex on the wedding night, life, would you be telling your family about your bedroom exploits? So therefore why should kinky encounters be any different?

Personally I grew up in a very religious conservative home, but I grew out of it and believe I am a more rounded and educated person for questioning and challenging some of the teachings and belief systems that I grew up with. But, it works for me, and no one has been hurt... so I'm happy.

But if it does not work for you, then that's what makes you happy, so go with it.

And I totally believe no one has to agree with anyone on here, that's where the best discussions and experiences come from! :)

Good luck with your explorations,
K ;)

Originally posted by: ET from California
i dont know why i put a question mark behind the title. maybe because i am even unsure of what i'm asking. so, let me start with the definition from the good ol' wikipedia: Hedonism is the philosophy that pleasure is of ultimate importance, the most important pursuit.

Although there is nothing wrong with satisfying pleasures, per se, to make it your life's ambition to just seek out pleasures (selfish, sexual, etc.) as THE most important pursuit isn't really a good pursuit actually. How about pursuing love; about pursuing the needs of others before one's self; pursuing God's best for our lives? I believe God is a God of moderation and our lives should be of moderation as well. Solomon talked about how there is a time for all things and a time to every purpose under heaven (see Ecclesiastes). A trip to Hedonism is not a bad thing for the one you love, but to pursue it as your life's ambition, not so much.

Originally posted by: ET from California
on another forum i asked a question about my certain fetishes and asked whether is was bad. i was delighted when K. in cleveland and dan himself answered. their answers relieved me quite a bit and i am a bigger fan of dan&jen because of it. however, dan wrote something that i had a problem with; a problem because i dont know what to do with it. he wrote, "if it works for you and nobody's getting hurt, then so what." which- to a certain extent, i agree.... but when i read that, the first thing i thought about was the idea of hedonism. now, i know that the idea of hedonism wasnt what dan referred to, but one can see that it plays a part in his mentality. so here's the context i'm coming from:

Fetishes (to some extent) aren't a bad thing provided they have a place in the relationship and that the other person is on board with where you are at. If you are by yourself you only have yourself to grieve, but by in large there are people with many fetishes and let me tell you some have me scratching my head to make sense and others I can totally identify with (i.e. I have a thing for long legs and high heels).

Originally posted by: ET from California
i am a christian. in fact, i am a daughter of a pastor. i am also as liberal as christians come. i dont believe in waiting for marriage but i do believe in waiting for the right person. i dont believe that my virginity defines my worth. i cannot wait to have sex and try every imaginable sex positions. but still... i find a problem is the idea that if it works for me and nobody's getting hurt, then it's all fine and dandy. how about morals? accountability? and the fact that although its not hurting me and the person i am doing it with, it can hurt the people around me if they knew? how about god? is wanting an older man to punish me during sex and call me dirty names something god wants for me? is this just another religious stigma i have to get over?!?!!? i dont believe that my whole purpose on earth is to be happy. there has to be something more, right?

Hmm, funny, I'm one too. Trust me you are dealing with better than I did. For me it was always hidden from others until I found myself full of guilt and fear promising to God I won't fall prey to my "lust" ever again...and again...and again. You, on the other hand, are secure in your faith and in your sexuality to a point concerning how to deal with your sexual side of you. I agree with what you are saying regarding virginity. Jesus made a bigger deal about the attitude of the heart than about what we do with our bodies ("What goes in a man's mouth does not make him unclean, but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him unclean." Mathew 15:11) From what I am reading you got the heart attitude down pat; your concern is about how God feels, how your (potential) partner feels and how others might feel. This is a good thing. I get the feeling talking about this side of you during the pot luck dinner is something out of the question. But if there are friends you can relate to and can handle what you think and feel about sex--or share your same beliefs--its a lot easier to deal with.
You may have read this already, but Romans Chapter 14 is a huge chapter for those in the post-crucifixion world. It talks about our freedoms in Christ and what we are and are not allowed to do. For first century believers it was about whether one can eat meat sacrificed to idols or not; for a story I heard years ago it was about hippies and flower children who came to know Jesus wearing their long hair and bell bottoms to church or not; today, can a single person be sexually active or not? You are way ahead of so many out there who are deathly afraid of having one sexual thought.

"As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean." (Romans 14: 14 NIV)

Too often the church makes sex the enemy when it was created by God for men and women to enjoy. Right now there are movements within the faith of couples and singles taking charge of their own sexual destiny and making sure if they decide to be active sexually that God is going to say on when it is okay or not. Don't be afraid to talk to God about it; trust me "ET" he can handle it and knows your heart better than anyone. If there are aspects you sense is not right put it out. If it doesn't bother God enjoy with the right person.

I'd also check if the person is a: caring and respectful of your beliefs and b: not weak in this area too. Add a c: not seeking to hurt you are break your heart in your relationship and I think it is a good start to handling your relationships.

Originally posted by: ET from California
what do you all think? i'm just confused, i guess. and dont get me wrong, i love dan&jen. but i think we all can agree to disagree on some issues.

True. Test and see if what I say is right on or not, be prayerful always, but hold on to what you said earlier about what defines you and how you choose to approach sexuality as a single person. If most single people had the heart attitude of others first before themselves first a lot of problems would be rectified and Dan and Jennifer would have to find something else to talk about other than relationship problems (oops, was that a thud I heard in the distance?"


Ed
Christian Pro Erotic moderator

FINALLY! Ed, thank you for your reply. i am so happy that someone of the same faith replied to my post. dont get me wrong, the other posts were very very helpful, but it is always different coming from a person who understands where you are coming from, right?

before i am going to reply to you, Ed, i'll give a little bit of my background, just for context. i am getting my degree in Biblical Studies in one year. i came to my university so vulnerable, seeking answers but ended up with more questions that i can handle. i thought god would answer everything for me. i thought wrong. but it wasnt because of god's lack of response, but because it was just life. i'm living life, and life gives all of us shitty questions to handle. i came to school, 4 years ago, a typical christian girl who wants to wait for marriage; it was the grandeur of it all that got to me. however, throughout the years, my "sunday-school" eyes opened, if you know what i mean. god wasnt the same god anymore. the bible isn't as inerrant as i thought it was, i turned to be a different human being. i realized that there is something more to me and to life than waiting off for marriage. i realized that god is not keeping count on all the virgins out there.... in a way i was freed from all that foolishness. but with overcoming that battle, i entered a new one; one that i am in right now.

despite knowing that god is different from the happy-go-lucky god i learned in sunday school, and despite finding my own sexuality in the process and becoming 'freed', i still believe that as a christian i should live as Other in the world. we should live as a contrast society, transformed, and different than the world, that should include not just how we live our lives, but how we live our sex lives as well. Ed, how do you find balance in all of this?

i feel like it's too long of a check list to make sure that what i want to do sexually doesnt hurt me, my partner, my friends, my family, and now i have to add God to that list. shouldnt it just be nice a short: does this please God or not? thats it. no one else should enter consideration. and further more, how do we know whether this pleases god?

i raise these questions not because i am prude (far from it, in fact) but because i am concerned. I love jesus so much. i also love sex. i love my body and i love touching myself and a man's body. i dont think any of this is evil and i dont think God does either. but when it comes to sex, is there a line we christians shouldnt cross; we, who are supposed to be Other and transformed? how transformed are we if our actions reflect the world and not GOd?

help me? :)

Originally posted by: ET from California
..... how transformed are we if our actions reflect the world and not GOd?

There is a big difference between what God tells us is “Worldly” and what the world thinks is “Godly”
As a Christian my sex life opened up when I read the scriptures and quit listening
to traditions of the church. Follow the lead of the Bereans, test all things and let God lead you to the answer.

May I ask why you sometimes capitalize God and not at other times? I don’t know if you are doing it for a particular reason
Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria
(& my hubby)

Originally posted by: SnakeBabe
There is a big difference between what God tells us is “Worldly” and what the world thinks is “Godly”
As a Christian my sex life opened up when I read the scriptures and quit listening
to traditions of the church. Follow the lead of the Bereans, test all things and let God lead you to the answer.

May I ask why you sometimes capitalize God and not at other times? I don’t know if you are doing it for a particular reason
Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria
(& my hubby)

thankyou maria. i never thought about the fact that what we consider "Godly" or "worldly" may be different than what God considers them to be. it just goes to show how little we really know our awesome God! i am testing things and i am desperately trying to hear God. Most of the times it is very hard to hear God's soft voice in such a hectic world, you know?

and, no. i dont have a particular reason to why i capitalize or dont capitalize God. i just get lazy sometimes :)

OK, Jennifer here...

I'm going to challenge you all with a short thought (OK - maybe not so short)

Why do some religions teach that God is "out there" if God is all powerful, omnipotent, and omnipresent? This seems to be a contradiction of terms...

I believe that God exists within all of us, every plant, every animal, every cell within our body. I do not believe that God is something "out there". I do not believe that Heaven or Hell is something "out there". It's all within us and how we experience our reality - through love or fear - determines if we are in Heaven or Hell.

Scientists are now beginning validate the existence of a holographic reality - meaning that everything exists everywhere at the same time in all of us, in everything.

I don't know if you know what cell memory is, but it's basically the idea that all of your history and your family's history, and your nations history, the history of the world, is all passed to us through our genes and therefore colors our reality as we see it and experience it.

If this is true, then we don't need someone to tell us what's right and what's wrong - we already know - it's hard coded. There are also more studies being released that indicate that "morality" is actually genetic - not taught by religion. Further more, I do believe that our purpose in this 3-D reality is to experience life, to live life. Right and wrong are concepts of duality and therefore are in complete opposition of the idea of God which represents Unity and Oneness.

There are many things that are beyond our understanding and I feel that the church has used this lack of understanding to create fear and control among the population.

Just ask yourself this question when you're in doubt. "Am I acting out of LOVE or FEAR". Love is with God and fear is not... Simple...

Originally posted by: Dan And Jennifer
OK, Jennifer here...
....If this is true, then we don't need someone to tell us what's right and what's wrong - we already know - it's hard coded. There are also more studies being released that indicate that "morality" is actually genetic - not taught by religion......

C.S. Lewis in his book “Mere Christianity’ offers this as an evidence that God created us. That moral law exists in us from birth. The idea that we all know its wrong to take what is not yours, or that we are to help others is credited to being created by a good and loving God, not genetics.

Originally posted by: Dan And Jennifer
….. and I feel that the church has used this lack of understanding to create fear and control among the population.
...

I agree that the “Church” has used it but I don’t feel God has. The problem has its roots in that people are looking to the church and not God’s word. People are too quick to accept what is preached in the pulpit instead of searching the scriptures themselves for the wonderful loving truths of God. People make mistakes and preachers do too. They are not infallible, only God is. This problem is multiplied when a preacher is looked at as a person of unquestionable authority and followed.

Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria ( and Mr. SnakeBabe)

I think I have yet again a different take on this too. Is the pursuit of pleasure as one's life goal right or wrong...well I think that depends on whether you are pursuing pleasure for yourself at the expense of others, or whether you are pursuing making the reality around you more pleasurable so that all people that you come in contact with, feel a deeper sense of ...pleasure of..."being IN-LOVE with life", the French would say a certain Joie de Vivre or Joie de vie! What is your focus then, what is your intent, because that is what defines your moral ground.
I too am a minister's daughter, and let me tell you even with a very liberal Christian background there has been a lot of soul-searching and struggling to understand myself . I too believe as Jennifer does, God is in us and with us and in all things. If we put our sexuality in that context of seeking out the Joy in life that is given to us by God, and in turn seeking to share and teach that Joy to and with and for others, than I think we are safely in spirit of "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and "Love God with all your heart" because if I see God in my neighbor, and who is my neighbor but all people I come in contact, and I seek to love them in some context, maybe not sexually, but still.... Then I am living the spirit of those ideals.
As for specific fetishes or kink.... I have struggled with this even more than I have with my orrientation, and now my learning that my orientation isn't or hasn't been what I had thought it was ( more later ), but the question, could I enjoy being tied up, could I enjoy certain other fetishistic things and still be in the spirit of the ideal? I have to believe that my sexuality comes from the divine, it is a gift, and I can't pick and choose which parts I want or like and which parts aren't something that I can accept. So if I've identified as lesbian most of my life and I suddenly meet a man that has set my heart on fire, as has happened, and my partner is fine with it, and I still love her and she still loves me, then I have to believe that it is a gift to me from the divine to share my heart and mind with this person. God throws us curve balls not to test us, as some might think, but to keep life interesting. I think the real truth is God finds BOREDOM an abomination, and in truth God LOVES infinite variation.
I don't know if this helps anyone, but it's sort of where I am at right now.
Hugs,
Rachael

Originally posted by: Dan And Jennifer
OK, Jennifer here...

I'm going to challenge you all with a short thought (OK - maybe not so short)

Why do some religions teach that God is "out there" if God is all powerful, omnipotent, and omnipresent? This seems to be a contradiction of terms...

I believe that God exists within all of us, every plant, every animal, every cell within our body. I do not believe that God is something "out there". I do not believe that Heaven or Hell is something "out there". It's all within us and how we experience our reality - through love or fear - determines if we are in Heaven or Hell.

Scientists are now beginning validate the existence of a holographic reality - meaning that everything exists everywhere at the same time in all of us, in everything.

I don't know if you know what cell memory is, but it's basically the idea that all of your history and your family's history, and your nations history, the history of the world, is all passed to us through our genes and therefore colors our reality as we see it and experience it.

If this is true, then we don't need someone to tell us what's right and what's wrong - we already know - it's hard coded. There are also more studies being released that indicate that "morality" is actually genetic - not taught by religion. Further more, I do believe that our purpose in this 3-D reality is to experience life, to live life. Right and wrong are concepts of duality and therefore are in complete opposition of the idea of God which represents Unity and Oneness.

There are many things that are beyond our understanding and I feel that the church has used this lack of understanding to create fear and control among the population.

Just ask yourself this question when you're in doubt. "Am I acting out of LOVE or FEAR". Love is with God and fear is not... Simple...

Thanks Jenn!

I respect your beliefs and I have pondered them too. sometimes... way too much.

first of all, i think that there is a potential Jesus in all of us. the symbol of Jesus anyway. i believe that helping that homeless person is like loving Jesus. However, I dont believe that God is in all of us or in everything. I think that it is crucial that we remember that God is creator and a creator is not the same thing as his creation. WE are his creation. we can of course, see some of our creator in his creation; it is how it goes, i guess. but to erase that barrier is to erase the important point that we are not God and God is not us. How ever similar the creator and creation is there is also a great big difference.

anyway, i am at work right now. i will reply to this later!! thanks again!

ha! its me again. except that i'm off work now!


to continue:

i dont know if good or bad and the knowledge of both is innate. after all, we have to teach children the meaning of sharing and being kind. these 'good' social manners need to be taught. the reason why most kids are ashamed of parents knowing that they touch themselves secretly is because parents have taught them that. and if what our views of what is good or bad is hereditary, then what happens to freewill? how do we explain that child who is so unlike his/her family? who "beat" the system, so to speak?

i dunno... as you can read, jen, i have more questions than answers...