Ask Dan & Jennifer

From what i am reading about the staring cheating. Sounds like you both need to sit down and have a long conversation on his status of what cheating is. Get his point of view on the subject. Then you need to let him hear your side. You have to remember what the defination of cheating is. We have read your idea in one area. I would break this down into pros and con. (write them) That way to can communicate on all level of what cheating means to each of you. You may find out he is thinking one thing and you are thinking a different area.

Best of luck

We sat down and talked, and he, like everything else, shrugged it off, and got deffensive although, I didnt blow up. I simply sat him down and and told him how it hurt me, and that did get into the subject of cheating. He wont really tell me what he thinks is classified as cheating, but I have told him my views. I guess my question really was, am I alone in feeling like this is cheating?
Thank you for your advice,
Samantha

Samantha: I think you have two separate but interacting issues going on here.

It concerns me that he won't talk to you about this. I don't know what's going on there, but that is the bigger problem. As far as the looking, that is just something that we do. Men are aroused visually, the same way that women are aroused aurally. That's why we don't get swept away by listening to someone sing. I'm sure he does find these other women attractive. It's often an unconscious response.

Committing to one woman isn't something that men do naturally. It is an act of the will, to be faithful to one person. The fact that he is looking at other women doesn't mean that he is or is not doing more. When a woman starts looking at other guys, it's usually because there's a problem in her primary relationship. I'm afraid you're interpreting male behavior from a female point of view. When a guy looks, it just means that he's looking. I don't think that says a lot about the quality of your relationship, one way or the other.

If you think there's more than looking going on with the neighbor, then that's another matter entirely. As far as the flirting, that's just how some people relate. Of course, it could mean he's trying to get somewhere with them. You just can't tell by someone being flirty what their intentions are.

Right now, I don't think there is strong evidence that anything is going on. I kind of suspect you may be putting two and two together and getting six. I think his being unwilling to talk to you is by far the bigger problem here. That could indicate that there is something to hide, or that he simply thinks you're being unreasonable and doesn't want to get into a discussion about it.

I wish I could be clearer, but I just don't think there's enough information for a firm conclusion right now. I will tell you that jealousy is a relationship killer. If he's just looking, I'd let that one go. You can even tease him about it. If you get mad, you just come off as insecure.

He has either committed to be faithful to you, or he hasn't. Looking isn't a sign one way or the other.

He knows where you are from your point. Question, where his point? There has to be two people talking in this relationship. He must come out of his little shell and see the world that is around him.

You both really need to sit down and talk about everything. Bring his life into view and talk and see where he is. Then you need to bring your life into view and talk and see where you are. Sounds like he has pinned and is fighting you. See if you can have him do the pro and con list. Write everything down then come back in a week and discuss everything written. Your open minds must be in this. If you both need to get away togather so you can have no distraction. Then do it!!!

Hate to say it, but if he can't sit down and i mean talk with you about everything. Then you need to see whats going on in his life to bring him to this point.

Looks like you are in for a rough ride till he opens up about everything...

Best of luck

I realize men look, its who they are, but when he comes upstairs, gets a full blown hard on from me and then goes down with it, and looks at the neighbor, there is something morally wrong with that, isnt there? looking, ok, but looking with an erection? any man who is going to do that, honestly, isnt a man I want! If I'm not good enough, then bye bye, u know? I hate feeling unreasonable, but this just really gets to me!!!!!!

Samantha

You hit the nail on the head, this is why I am seriously considering a trial seperation, in case you havent read my other threads, this is an issue. He refuses to put any effort into our relationship, whether it be talking, taking time out for ourselves, our love life, ANYTHING at all. His priorities are 100% messed up. I have tried writting everything down in pros and cons, in letter form, everything, I have run out of ideas, which is why I joined Dan and Jennifer. No matter how I approach him he feels threatened. Even when I leave him a letter or short note, or sit down calmly, or after love making (when we made love). I've hit my breaking point! I couldnt stand to loose him, I mean we have 2 kids together and I love him like nothing else, but something has to give!

Samantha

With what you are saying. Seperation may be the ticket for you, just remember once you get started don't stop till he comes around. This could turn into very scary situation for you both. If you are really in love with this man. Then i would suggest getting help from a counselor.

Like what you said, he came up stairs with a full blown hard on. To me i would be asking my wife for some nasty time. If that would fail to happen. Guess i would be masturbating with her watching then. Sounds like fun to me now... Anyway, going back down stairs and have your neighbor view your hard on, sorry not for me. Yes i know what you are asking, i have agree with you.....

My best

Thats good to know. And I wanted to continue with our little 'game' but he kept sayin he had stuff to do, so I though, ok, later then, but needless to say, he killed the mood, and it never happened, i actually slept in my car, that night. But yes, I am looking for a counseler. A cheap one, hopefully. But I got a few leads at some churches, so hopefully that works out, But thank you very much!!! Any more advice, or an after thought, please let me know!!!!!!

Samantha

Looking or "staring" is not cheating. I am not sure of the vows that you took when you got married but having conducted several marriages myself I am sure that there was nothing in there about never having feelings of arousal. That being said you do have a right to your feelings and he should listen to them.

I don't know the content of your discussion with him but if it was confrontational I wouldn't expect him to be very open with his feelings. We are complicated creatures also.

On a lighter note, be pleased. He got aroused so he went to you. Since the basic animal issue can be left aside, as it is clear in your own report, it comes down to an emotional issue. Do I read this correctly? Is he only supposed to have that response to you and to you alone?

Rembrandt

No, he got aroused, with me, and then went back down and stared at her. And yes, I better be the only one to arouse him. He married me, if wanted to be getting hard for the neighbor, he should have married her. I have never met a man, that walked around with a hard on for everything with tits, if he did, he wasnt a man I would be willing to be in a commited relationship with. If she is going to keep him hard, he can have her, thats the way I see it.

I may very well have misunderstood your posts. The internet is not the best medium from communication. Unfortunately it is what we have for this discussion.

Do you love him? If not, what are you doing with him. If you do love him, it just takes work. All good relationships have ups and downs and takes lots of work. There are two people with their own ideas and thoughts. That is why the work and the communication are necessary.

If you two can't communicate perhaps there is something happening in the relationship "script" that is interfering with deeper communication. Get some assistance, together, on this matter. It can be a big help. If you two love each other then it is worth it.

From experience I can say that each of you have your own issues. You have to find a way to get to the ugly truth in which you are not a queen that owns him and he is not a king that owns you. You are two individuals together sharing a life. Get some assistance. It is worth it.

Rembrandt

Sorry for getting the arousal part mixed up. After re-reading your note several times i see your point. Have to agree with you on the hardness. You get him hard to should be able to enjoy the hardness. Not letting the neighbor enjoy it. Have you ever thought about your other half having a fetish with him showing himself?

He has always said public 'relations' is something that excites him. But he is not a very sexual person (which sux because I am) but I wouldnt see how this would work because she couldnt really 'see' his hard on, but he did have one, I mean thru jeans and a large jacket? But yes you have a point there, I might want to look further into this.
Thank you!

But your right, we do need help. We both have our issues and he HAS done things in the past to make me distrust him. I dont think he would cheat on me (at least I hope not) But as for wanting other women I am almost 100% sure he does, which is NOT ok with me!!!!!! And he knew this before we got married, and I told him just before this whole neighbor thing, that I felt that hard core check outs of other women werent ok with me, and he said that it was fine, that he wasnt like that anyways. His reasoning with the neighbor thing was because he admires her for being a single mom working, going to college, etc. But with a hard on?!?! I dunno.

If he is going to rationalize like that he does want to stay with you. Maybe he is just trying to fulfill something in his own mind, he might not even know what it is. You two have a lot of work to do. Luckily there are many professionals out there that are skilled in dealing with these issues and are capable of helping you and he acquire the skills/tools necessary to grow your relationship.

Take this as an opportunity instead of an obstacle. You don't have an obstacle of arousal in the "wrong" place. You have an opportunity to grow together and individually as human beings. You should welcome the opportunity. You have a great chance to do something great for the two of you. Do it together and you will not be disappointed.

Rembrandt

So you really think we should get counseling?

Yes!!! I think that the two of you could benefit from a therapist that could help you two acquire the skills to actually talk to each other without hiding, fighting, or being combative. So many couples combat or argue instead of talk. It takes work, compassion, understanding, and forgiveness (at times) to be able to navigate the strange world of love and relationships.

It would be good for the two of you. The worse thing that could happen is that you two find out that you should not be with each other. The best thing that could happen is that you find ways to mend the rifts in your relationship. In either case you will both grow from the experience. That is what living is all about. Learning, loving and growing. It is a tough road but nobody was promised a rose garden. Do it, pay attention and try. That is all you can do. Put your all into it and something good will come from it.

Rembrandt

Other than going to counseling. You might bring out his hidden agenda, with exposure. Have you thought of Adult video dealing in that assortment of fantasy for him and you? This could be a good way to see what he is thinking, but you two watching it together. Never know what might come out of this...

Best of luck

wow, your sooo right. Thank you soo much, I will start looking for a good therapist right away.

Samantha

I like porn, but he will not watch it!!! He doesnt like it, I've tried. There is only one sort of porno that i can get him even sit thru for a second and thats F***ing machines, and he says thats only because he can imagine that its me, and not the other chick.......?? Very good idea tho, I thought of that too.

Samantha

Well at least you know something he likes. Never really thought about f@@king machines myself, but they are interesting to watch. Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. Wish you luck and yes i would still think about the counseling...

Best to you

Good luck to you and he. Not to dampen your spirits, don't go into any therapy expecting overnight success. It takes time. A therapist is not healing you, he or she is helping you to figure out how to heal. Then it is going to be up to you and your husband to heal. Take your time and work with your therapist.

As far as finding a good one for your problem, like all professions there are some specializations, take a look at their CV if you can find it and ask questions. Is marital issues, issues with sex and other matters that you two are experiencing their particular area of expertise? Make sure that you find the professional that can help you.

I am sure an ENT doctor could do thoracic surgery if necessary but I would rather go to a "chest cutter" for that.

Like I said, this will not cure your marriage. It can give you the tools to fix it or to realize that it should be dissolved. Just remember to take your time and work with it. Everything that is worth while takes time.

Rembrandt

Yea, I found a clip at crazys**t.com, and clicked on the link, at first I watched to see how they were made cause I wanted one, but It actually does something for me! Weird but cool, lol. But yea, anyways......

Samantha

Ok, first, what is a CV? And what did you mean by an ENT, and surgery? what kind of surgery? and what is a chest cutter? I'm sorry, I just got confused, lol.

Samantha

I have been drinking a bit tonight so pardon my spelling

CV = Curricula Vitae which is pretty much a listing of a persons work and published materials

ENT = Ear Nose and Throat, it is a specialty, not someone that you would prefer for thoracic surgery

"Chest cutter" = military slang, and possibly medical slang, for thoracic surgeon

Sorry for the jargon

Regarding porn, I know a few guys that are not into porn - just not their thing. Personally I will watch porn with my wife anytime.

R

Who said anything about surgery? Who needs surgery? I dont know what this has to do with me and my husband, lol.

The surgery comment was just an analogy. I would not want someone who did not specialize in a specific surgery that I needed to do it. I also would not want to work with a therapist that did not specialize in my particular type of problem. If you have marital issues you should go to a therapist that specializes in those type of issues.

Rembrandt

Oh, ok, lol. Sorry I misunderstood, but yea I see what you mean now. So, givin what you know, who what type would you recommend for me and my husband?

Samantha

Find someone that specializes in couples therapy or marriage counseling. It will most likely be right in the yellow pages under that.

Rembrandt

Last night HE actually found some therapists online and sent a couple of emails...........

Sam

That is excellent news. Good luck and keep working at it.

R

Yea, things are slowly looking like they might be getting better. So, keep your figures crossed, lol.
Thanks

Samantha

I don't think it's cheating but I think it's inappropriate, ignorant, inconsiderate, disrespectful, rude, etc.
I try to respect the person I'm with.
I wouldn't like it if my partner or date did it.

So what part were you talking about? lol. I have written so much...the whole this or one specific part?
Sorry for misunderstanding..

Samantha

I agree with its definitely inappropriate, I not sure if he is trying to send some message that he wants to get out of the marriage, it's definitely weird. He should care enough about your feelings to stop that staring. I hope things work out.

Thatnks, Ive been saying the same thing for a long time.

Samantha