Ask Dan & Jennifer

If it is concensual with everyone that is involved; it is up to you what you want to do. How comfortable you are with it. However, on a side note, having sex with more than one partner kind of defeats the point of marriage. Sorry but that little tid-bit is true.

The fantasy is better than the reality

Originally posted by: slittylicker
The fantasy is better than the reality

I disagree! The reality is great and it provides a lot of fantasies later!

Just out of curiosity, how does Judy feel about it? I really think it would be better if Lori asked Judy. She'll feel pressured if it comes from you.

I like what Beagle said,
How did you come by this information?....from your wife or from the friend?. I admire all of yall's communication, fun aint it.
In my opinion this one is a little more up to your wife than it is you, lets face it your a man...what man doesnt love the idea of playin with two ladies?
I strongly disagree with "whats the point of being married"...EVERYTHING!...sharing it, respecting it, allowing each other to be true to themselves and honest about what they feel and safe enough to share it?....OMG!..its the dream!...truly together imo....otherwise there's no need to share it is there not?
As long as you and your wife are completely open about it and honest with each other's feeling about it, more than likely something good will come from it....honest=good vs. dishonest (or any lack thereof)=bad.
soulsearch and make sure everything is on the up and up and see where you are...if it works out awesome!....if it dont awesome..!..In the end we are always happy if we are honest with one another, thats what makes marriage pure and selfless imo...Hope these thoughts help...good luck on your adventure together, I have the highest respect for adults that are not too afraid to talk.


V/R...Love

Originally posted by: 4711Heart
However, on a side note, having sex with more than one partner kind of defeats the point of marriage. Sorry but that little tid-bit is true.

I'm guessing that you're saying that because you would consider that to be cheating. The way I see it, it isn't considered cheating if both parties have talked about it and came to a compromise. When there hasn't been any communication involved and it is done behind the other's back, then yeah, that's cheating.

I git kinda messed up following these things sometimes.

who considers that cheating?


v/r...Love

So what is marriage to you then? And why would it "defeat the purpose of marriage" if they decide to seek other sex partners? As long as everyone involved agrees to it and they're ok with it, there shouldn't be a problem.

Having more than one partner regardless of the situation defeats the point of marriage. Marriage is for two people to choose each other from everyone else to belong to each other for the rest of your life. And till death do you part. Or have you forgotten your vows already. "You don't like the rules, don't play the game!" "Write that down!"

Originally posted by: 4711Heart
Having more than one partner regardless of the situation defeats the point of marriage. Marriage is for two people to choose each other from everyone else to belong to each other for the rest of your life. And till death do you part. Or have you forgotten your vows already. "You don't like the rules, don't play the game!" "Write that down!"

Marriage is a union, right? I think that's what you are saying. But we don't exclude others from ALL parts of our life, do we? We have dinner with others, work with others, go to movies, shopping, the park, etc. with others. If what you assert is correct, we wouldn't be doing those things with anyone other than our spouses. That's what marriage is, right? Why do you differentiate sex from all other activities. There's nothing in the law or even in the Bible that specifies that.

I'm interested in what you believe about pre-marital sex. If the purpose of marriage is to have sex (and only with each other) then, logically, you can't have sex before marriage. By your logic. Is this what you believe?

What if one person in the relationship was not able to have sex - perhaps due to an injury or impotence. What then? What would be the purpose of marriage if not to be able to have sex?

Or what if one person was not able to conceive and both wanted a baby. And one of them had sex with someone to be able to have a child that was biologically related? Does THAT defeat the purpose of marriage?

Ultimately, the purpose of marriage is different for different people and couples. Some want the financial security, some marry just to have children, some (most, hopefully) marry out of sheer love, and there are many other reasons. It isn't just about having sex. And a marriage isn't just about having sex.

Dear 4711,
You have your opinion of what being married means, and thats fine I can respect that. You'd be surprised if you knew how much many of us agree with what you think.

Originally Posted by 4711Heart
Having more than one partner regardless of the situation defeats the point of marriage. Marriage is for two people to choose each other from everyone else to belong to each other for the rest of your life. And till death do you part. Or have you forgotten your vows already. "You don't like the rules, don't play the game!" "Write that down!"

- We have chosen one another from everyone else....and sex is only one tiny part of it. Emotionally we cannot be separated..we accept the beauty of each other as an individual and their right to be human...we do not supress our feelings or desires like many do ...we work through them together and will do so all our lives......Doesnt sound like we have "forgotten our vows" to me..

- Rules?....Outside of what we come to as accepted rules in a marriage...is there some manual for accepted marriage rules I missed?

Your beliefs on what marriage means are yours as well as the societal norm I dare say..I dont feel any less married than you friend...we've been married 12 years and we still have the excitement of dating in it so I am not so sure I am going to buy the fact that your beliefs in marriage are the best and only ones to practice.
If these people as adluts come together and get to a point that they want to enjoy a third person, who in the hell are we to ridicule or judge them for it, quite the contrary.....I wish every marriage was THAT close to be able to share such thoughts without the fear of being thrown out the house or destroying everything. Instead it seems like MUCH of the societal norm is instead to have these thoughts and then cheat on their spouse...Thats what seems to be the societal norm to me...No one is cheating in my marriage, I dont have to fear such things.

I applaud them for sharing and honesty, its the secret to getting as close as you can to each other.

V/R...Love

Dear Love,

I respect your and their choice to believe what you want; for believing what you want is your right as anyone elses. I am also glad they can be open and discuss what they are feeling. This definitely prevents cheating. I am also not judging. However, I am informing as to the truth of the way things are.

Original Quote:
Rules?....Outside of what we come to as accepted rules in a marriage...is there some manual for accepted marriage rules I missed?


In ever single culture there are and have always been rules for marriage. Whether you or anyone else abides by them is your choice. As a matter of fact, in every culture religion is tied into marriage. Most these rules decree that the husband and wife are only to be with one another emotionally, and sexual in all aspect. And to share these aspects of themselves with NO One Else. And in many if not all religions/cultures these rules are written down. In our country, our rules of marriage come from you know where. Thats right, they come from the BIBLE. I know that this is the part where you and many other people are making faces in disgreement and maybe even offended. But I cannot help that, that is the truth of the matter. I didn't make the world, I was just born into it. "Write that down". If you want to have threesomes and orgies that is fine. But I wouldn't exactly advise those things to involve marriage.

In the end it is up to you to do whatever. But I just want to make sure you and anyone else knows whats what. Don't wish to offend anyone in anyway but that is the truth. I can't help that, I'm just reporting it. To be honest, I'm am a bit worried when someone feels that is what they have to do to spice up their marrietal sex life. But once again; your decision.

Best wishes.

Originally posted by: 4711Heart
In our country, our rules of marriage come from you know where. Thats right, they come from the BIBLE. I know that this is the part where you and many other people are making faces in disgreement and maybe even offended. But I cannot help that, that is the truth of the matter. I didn't make the world, I was just born into it. "Write that down". If you want to have threesomes and orgies that is fine. But I wouldn't exactly advise those things to involve marriage.
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I've read the "bible" myself. And it is chock full of sex with harlots (as they called them), sisters, mothers, and multiple wives. Yes, multiple wives.

Genesis 4:19: “Lamech married two women.” Several prominent men in the Old Testament were polygamists. Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, and others all had multiple wives. In 2 Samuel 12:8, God, speaking through the prophet Nathan, said that if David’s wives and concubines were not enough, He would have given David even more. Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines (essentially wives of a lower status), according to 1 Kings 11:3.

You can cite the bible but there are as many passages contrary to your beliefs on this matter as for them. So it really comes down to YOUR belief, not what the Bible says.

I'm not trying to be hostile here. But please don't use the Bible to support your belief system in this case. Just say it's what YOU believe just because you want it that way.

I think this has been a really great discussion, and some great points have been brought up. I don't think there is any universal standard for marriage. Ultimately, doesn't everyone choose his own beliefs and value system. What makes America great is that you are free to choose your own value system without interference from me, or the government acting on my behalf.

Ultimately, a marriage is a covenant between two people and it is for them to decide what the boundaries to their relationship will be. With the freedom to adopt an unconventional lifestyle comes the responsibility to accept the risks and consequences that go with those decisions. Many people that I respect are monogamous, and I also know very respectable people that are "swingers." Integrity is what happens when we are true to our own value system. Hypocrisy is when we claim a value system that we don't live up to.

My experience with various Christian groups is that each chooses what parts of the bible they want to emphasize. Yes, most of the revered figures in the bible were polygamous. However, the bible also sets the rules for selling your daughter as a slave (Exodus 21:7) and prescribes the death penalty for wearing a garment. Also, according to Exodus 35:2, I'm required to kill my mother for watering her flowers on Saturday. (I bet you won't hear about these things in Sunday School.) I don't think we can say that just because something is in the bible, that it is or is not a good decision. Polygamy is the norm in warrior societies, where a lot of men die in battle. However, if it became widespread in our culture, then a lot of men would never be able to marry. God, or evolution, or whatever you believe in gave us a brain for a reason. We have to make decisions about what is best for our circumstances, unless we want to go and stone old people for wearing fabrics made from two different kinds of threads.

Considering that yaw are taking the bible out of context of course yaw are going to say that. Notice, yaw didn't write anything about the Ten Commandments or where it says not to be polygamous. So your information is one-sided. And considering that the whole point of Jesus coming is that what are suppose to follow what he said. He said to follow some of the rules of old and to follow news rules that he brought from God himself. And polygany, polyandry, nor polygamy was not given approval of. Even when Moses first brought the Ten Commandments down after bring the people out of Egypt both he and God were displeased to say the very least, with the orgies and the worship of a false idles. So if your going to provide information; Don't make it bias.

And no matter what country you go to, there will always be rules you Must follow in order to get what you want whether it is "freedom" or other wise.

Ah thats what I was missing,
The "religeous" rules.....well....thats not MY truth 4711,....nor do I require anyone's approval on how I see marriage...I think it becomes Biased when you tell me that those are the rules and " the way it is, " and " the truth"...your source is christianity...for me thats not the absolute...and definitely not the My truth...although, I have heard that there are many "christian swingers"...I think what your saying is that if your married and christian those are the rules....personally I think you can be anything you wish to be and still in the end it is up to that couple where they meet in the middle about everything in there lives...
What if I were christian and my spouse was a devoted something else....would MY truth be the only truth and my spouse just have to deal with it even though it conflicted in some ways?
I respect that your beliefs formulate your views on marriage and what is the only acceptable way things must be in your marriage idea......and I am truly not trying to be confrontational in any way with those beliefs, I am merely stating back what I did in the beginning...."It is up to the couple the limitations of accepted and unaccepted behavior.....to me that is the truth

V/R...Love

Originally posted by: 4711Heart
Considering that yaw are taking the bible out of context of course yaw are going to say that. Notice, yaw didn't write anything about the Ten Commandments or where it says not to be polygamous. So your information is one-sided. And considering that the whole point of Jesus coming is that what are suppose to follow what he said. He said to follow some of the rules of old and to follow news rules that he brought from God himself. And polygany, polyandry, nor polygamy was not given approval of. Even when Moses first brought the Ten Commandments down after bring the people out of Egypt both he and God were displeased to say the very least, with the orgies and the worship of a false idles. So if your going to provide information; Don't make it bias.
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At the risk of drawing this out...

Biased? All of this came from the Bible. I did not state anything not in the Bible. So how can it be biased? The Bible is the "word of God", right? Perhaps you are saying that the Bible has conflicting statements (even though it is God's word).

My point was that you can find support for almost anything in the Bible. You're found support for what you believe but I can do the same. So which of us is right? It's all the word of God.

Ultimately, it is what YOU believe as the Bible would support both positions. But to include actual "facts" from the Bible is hardly taking it out of context or biased. It is what is written there.

I want to be perfectly clear Love and scarbowl, I am not trying to tell anyone how to live or what decisions to make. I just want yaw to be aware of a few things before you set in stone what you believe.

I know yaw believe what you want. I don't have anything against that, nor could I stop you even if I did.

As to what you wrote Love:

"The "religious" rules.....well....thats not MY truth 4711,....nor do I require anyone's approval on how I see marriage...I think it becomes Biased when you tell me that those are the rules and " the way it is, " and " the truth"...your source is christianity...for me thats not the absolute...and definitely not the My truth...although, I have heard that there are many "christian swingers"...I think what your saying is that if your married and christian those are the rules....personally I think you can be anything you wish to be and still in the end it is up to that couple where they meet in the middle about everything in there lives..."

This isn't about seeking approval from anyone or people's different ideals of the truth. This is about marriage being one extention of religion. There are many ways to conduct a marriage, ceremony and all. But No matter what type of marriage you involve yourself in, they all stem from some religion. And each religion has their own rules for marriage. If you don't have a specific religion you belong to, then you make up your own rules. BUT IN THIS COUNTRY many people get married in churches by a pastor of some sort. So if you were married by some religious leader, pastor or otherwise, then you are suppose to follow the matrimonial rules of whatever religion that you were married under. So that means that whoever was married in a church by a pastor [christianity], the rules of their matrimony are in the bible and may have even been said as part of the vows by the pastor.


This leads to my next point for scarbowl.
As for what you wrote, I think you misunderstand what I meant by bias. When I wrote that, I was refering to you not providing any possible opposing information to what you wrote. However, I am going on to say that the bible provides information as to what people were doing during that time period. But it is also telling that God didn't approve of what they were doing and that he wants them to operate in another way instead. Just want you to be aware of that. It is not a matter of conflicting statements for the point of this discussion. It is about God wanting marriage to be conducting in a certain way if you are going to have your marriage conducted in a christian matter.

I guess what I meant is, even though both parties agree on it, you never really know how you will feel until you're actually doing it.
When you see your partner being sexual with someone other than you, for the first time it can cause feelings you didn't anticipate. And maybe it won't.
If you've been monogamous until now, the bond has never been broken.
When it has, it can change everything.
I know there are people on this site with the swinger mentality, but not all people are wired that way. I'm not...and I'm very kinky and open. I just have my boundaries like anyone else and swinging crosses them.